The Truth About Keeping Kids Safe In School w/Daniel Dluzneski

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (00:01.849)

My guest today is Daniel Duluzneski. Thanks for coming talking to us today, Daniel. I appreciate you.

Daniel Dluzneski (00:09.186)

Thank you. Thank you for having me on.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (00:11.034)

Mm -hmm, for sure. So before we get into what you do, could you tell us who's Daniel?

Daniel Dluzneski (00:18.382)

Let's see, we can go back. I worked for the Secret Service for 24 years in Washington, DC. I was fortunate enough to stay in the city for that entire time. And I went through the process of being in the specialized units. I was in the K -9 unit. I was in public affairs. I worked at the White House and the vice president's residence and our headquarters branch. And I retired there as a lieutenant. And when I retired, I moved down here to Florida.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (00:34.33)

Mm

Daniel Dluzneski (00:47.598)

Being an alpha personality, I couldn't sit still for too long. So my local county had an opening for someone in safety and security with the school system. So it fit my resume and I joined them in Pinellas County, not realizing that, you know, I'm thinking Florida is just where people retire, but no, there's, was a very dense county with a lot of students. I had a hundred thousand students in 140 schools that I was in charge of and it was just me. So.

It was kind of, you know, throwing my feet to the fire. So I stayed there for four years and got a lot done. It was a strange kind of thing where the safety and security for the school system was just starting to build up because of these horrible, you know, school shootings. So it just, we wanted to make sure, and I was able to work with a very good group of people that we started from the outside.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (01:37.07)

Hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (01:46.334)

and layered approach to security for our schools, but we also wanted to make it a welcoming atmosphere. So it was that dynamic of not wanting to make the schools and turn them into prisons, but making sure that the staff and students were protected and were safe. So when parents dropped them off, they felt that they were safe inside the school.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (02:08.465)

okay. Well, that's a really good thing to be doing, especially when you're a solo mom. I remember when I was at work and I would get a call from one of my sons. I mean, I was living in New York City and I can't begin to explain what feeling that invokes in me when I get a call from my son during the day of school.

So I imagine in this day and age where we've had some very unfortunate incidents in school that solo moms, and I emphasize solo mom not just because that's what the show is about, but also because it's one person, they're not two people worrying about the kids, it's just one person at that time. How can you help solo moms

Daniel Dluzneski (02:53.368)

Right.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (03:05.429)

understand what you and the school system and other entities do to ensure your kids safety in school.

Daniel Dluzneski (03:15.47)

Well, probably the most important thing, and that's why I'm glad you were able to get me on this show, that when I first started this, some of the podcasts and some of the conferences, excuse me, I was talking to peers and other teachers and administrators, and I would try to ask them how they run their drills. And they would tell me, well, Dan, you have a lot of good ideas, but I'm getting orders from above. My superintendent would tell me we have to do this, or the school board says we have to do this. So I said, okay, that's fine.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (03:39.973)

Hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (03:44.748)

I'll talk to the parents. And nowadays, it's not like years ago when I was a child, parents would go to work, drop your kids off, you're good, we'll see you later, no big worry. You know, it's so different now, they would ask how your school day was. Now it's like, wait a minute, the school told me you ran a drill, what's going on? So I asked parents to talk to your children. I don't care if they're elementary school, all the way through high school, just ask them. And I have a teenage son.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (03:59.555)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (04:04.899)

Hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (04:14.616)

mean, he's in college now, but when I started this, he was in middle school and high school. And I know it's tough because they're on their phones, they're running upstairs to do video games, they're doing this and that, they're isolated. But sit them down and just very, you know, basically ask them, how does the school run emergency drills? How are they doing it? You know, what happens, we all understand what happens during a fire drill. That's pretty easy. We've doing that for hundreds of years. What happens if...

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (04:39.012)

Hmm.

Alright.

Daniel Dluzneski (04:42.862)

Well, what happens any other emergencies? Let's say an active shooter. Let's say there's a weapon in school. Let's say, you know, there's something else going on, some other kind of emergency. And just find out how the school are running these drills. If you hear something like, okay, we're going to lock down. Perfect. That's exactly what I benefit from. I'm old school. The doors are locked. You pull the blinds down. Lights are out. Kids sit on the floor away from the windows. Silence your phones.

don't open the door, you don't listen to any announcements, the good guys are coming. And that's what I advocate and have been advocating. There are school systems that will say, no, if we know where the active individual is, we're going to run out of the classroom. And I completely disagree. Why are you running out of a perfectly safe classroom? Where are you going? And you're not the only classroom that's leaving. All the classrooms.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (05:19.567)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (05:34.321)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (05:41.509)

Okay.

Daniel Dluzneski (05:42.476)

going to be leaving. So it's this massive pile up. I mean, it's easy to see if you look at Parkland, Marjory Stoneman Douglas here in Florida, you can look at Sandy Hook, you can look at ones in Idaho, Nashville, where these incidents happen, and the things that have gone wrong. And there's no reason for you to run out of a classroom when there's an active event going on. Because you're dealing with children. And the other thing is,

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (05:59.598)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (06:09.711)

Mm -hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (06:11.522)

Not only should you stay in a classroom, the other side of this is there are companies out there that market having your children throw things at a gunman. Throwing things. Pencils, iPads, books. What are you doing? What do mean you're throwing things? I'm not going to have a child throw something at a person with a weapon. That's crazy. That's insane. But there is teachings out there.

where they're having children do that. So if you hear your child say, yeah, we did this training where we had a person that pretended they were holding a gun and we threw things at them, immediately a red flag should go up and your stomach's a chart churning going, whoa, they're having you do what? There's no way a child, I don't care if they're high school or it doesn't matter, should be throwing something at a person with a weapon. That should not be happening. If they're training children to do that,

I would immediately contact the school and if they don't want to listen, that's when you go in front of the school board. Now I understand you only get three minutes. Talk to the school board. If they don't want to listen, then you start calling your state representatives and say, look, this is wrong. I'm not having my child do this. I mean, yeah, you can threaten to pull your child out, but what for if you've got them in a very good school? So ask your children what's going on. What, what, how are they running the drills? Are they staying in the classroom? Are they running out?

Are they throwing things at a person? So just find out how they're running the drills. And if you feel that something's wrong here, go in front of them and complain that, no, this is not right. They shouldn't be doing that.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (08:00.599)

Okay, thank you for that and I'm sorry my phone went off and I'm trying to silence it so that you know it doesn't interrupt again. So give me one second while I do that. I have to edit this video properly.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (08:24.685)

Yeah, don't want that doing that again. Okay. Thank you. And thank you for explaining that. because at first when I was asking the question, I really was thinking of big events like active shooters and you know, cause that's what's been in the headline, but there are also other considerations like the ongoing fire drills and other things that might, you know, that school administrators or safety officers like yourself.

Daniel Dluzneski (08:41.485)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (08:54.543)

would think about and have on your schedule to do on a regular basis. What are some of those other things? I really do want to get back to the shooting incidences, but I want to focus on what are some of the things that you as a safety person consider for school year to keep the awareness going in students' minds.

Daniel Dluzneski (09:00.034)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (09:17.41)

Well, the biggest thing for me, Jen, is the training, and it's human training. A lot of schools, what they'll tell you is, we're going to put in metal detectors, and everybody will be safe. We're good to go. We got metal, we got a grant, put in metal detectors. That's nothing but they call, it's just, it's just security theater. It looks good. It's not doing anything. I mean, it's just spending a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of personnel that you have to train on these metal detectors, and it takes forever for the kids to go through. It makes no sense.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (09:21.772)

Okay.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (09:27.289)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (09:36.289)

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (09:47.148)

So watch out for technology if they say, we're going to spend money on this or, OK, it's good to have cameras. I agree. You have cameras at the parking lot. have cameras that look out of your entrance. You don't need a camera at the entrance per se. But what we want is layered security. Most of your fencing should be six foot. Once they get past that, they go to a lobby area. And during the school day, there should be only one entrance into the school. That's it. During the school day, just one entrance.

I understand arrival in dismissal is a lot different. You're to have these different entrances, that's something different. But during the school day, one entrance. When they come in, they come into a lobby area where they need to be checked in. If that visitor is checked in and fined, they're either buzzed in, keyed in, or swiped in to get into the school. Fine. If they're not allowed in, they got one way out. They go back to where they came. So we try to prevent with what's called a layered security.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (10:16.505)

Mm

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (10:40.974)

Alright.

Daniel Dluzneski (10:45.94)

Once they're through that lobby area, the classroom doors should be locked during school time. You get a lot of pushback from teachers saying, my gosh, no, the kids get up and go to the bathroom, and they got to go here. I got to lock the door. Tough. Keep the door locked during school time. You're already one step ahead if you have to go into a lockdown. So it's just layered security. And the reason for that is if there is someone who comes in that's going to cause harm, it slows them down and give the police more time to respond. The other thing

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (10:51.161)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (11:03.715)

Right.

Daniel Dluzneski (11:15.904)

Again, most important, special resource officers. Down here in Florida, we were fortunate enough the legislature passed enough money so every school has a school resource officer, an armed school resource officer in every school. So I would advocate for that because they are there as an advocate for your children, for the staff, and for the parents. That's what they're there for. They're not there to arrest anyone. They're not there to arrest children.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (11:29.444)

Mm -hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (11:44.866)

They are there to protect them, and they are very well trained. We have a lot here in Florida, and I advocate that more than anything else, that these people volunteer for this. They do it because they love what they do, and they love children, and they're there to protect them. So that is another layer in the security, because if something happens, they're the first ones that are going to go, and then the crews are going to come behind them. So it's layered security. It's doing your drills properly. I'd suggest...

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (12:06.348)

Right.

Daniel Dluzneski (12:14.816)

Every quarter, I'd like to do a little more often because it gets in your mind what you need to do. But it's not all about technology. It's the human factor that does all this stuff. it's the humans that make mistakes. Don't depend on technology that something's going to save you. Getting away from just the act of shooters, what's happening more recently in schools is just people, kids showing up with weapons, whether it's knives or guns. That's more prevalent.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (12:20.825)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (12:32.078)

Alright.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (12:41.64)

Mm.

Daniel Dluzneski (12:44.652)

than just an active shooter. An active shooter incident, it's one in a million. I mean, it's probably never gonna happen at the school that you're at, but just be prepared for it, that's all. Just be prepared for it. It's nothing to be concerned about, as long you have the confidence to know what to do. But a lot of times at these schools, it's the weapons that show up. And then what do you do then? I have a lot of people that panic that, my gosh, he's got a weapon. Well, I don't know why that child has a weapon. Maybe they're scared.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (12:54.361)

Bye.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (13:13.292)

Right.

Daniel Dluzneski (13:13.442)

Maybe they're suicidal. Maybe they're being bullied. Maybe they just wanted to show their friends, look, you know, I found this gun or my dad has a gun. I wanted to show you. You don't know. And there's no reason to just go into a full -time panic. However, you want to protect the school. So yes, you will go into a lockdown. And you will hopefully have someone that will talk this child down, you know, to say, you don't need to use that. It doesn't necessarily mean that child's going to shoot everybody in the classroom. They may be just

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (13:22.296)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Daniel Dluzneski (13:43.054)

something going on mentally or in their lives that they felt that, hey, I need to have this weapon. So you have to find out. So the other thing that's recent, this has just been one in the past four or five years, is what's called a threat assessment team. And you're get together with a team of teachers, principals, administrators, hopefully some kind of mental health counselor, a nurse or other practitioner to be on a committee.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (13:45.167)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (14:11.522)

to have files on children that are troubled, troubled kids. So you have to find out what's going on. And yes, they're not these kids about snitching on each other. These kids, it's their school. They have to see, if Johnny over here is having trouble or Susan over here is having trouble, you have to say something. Even if it's your parents, what's going on? Because

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (14:33.433)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (14:37.614)

in today's day and age with all the digital and social media stuff, it's just overwhelming. When we were kids, there was no internet. And you'd get bullied at school, and then you went home, you're OK. Nowadays, it's 24 -7. It's constant. The social media, it's constant. these children can't get away from the bullying. So when that happens, it's just they don't know where to go. They don't know who to turn to.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (14:50.073)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (15:07.072)

Not that they don't trust their parents, but it's almost embarrassing that they don't want to say anything to their parents. So we have to encourage them. Look, there has to be a mentor, someone at school that you trust as a teacher, a counselor, someone you can say, hey, I'm having trouble, or I know this person over here is having trouble. The mental health aspect of all of this has exploded over the past four or five years, especially with the pandemic and especially with all the other stuff that's been going on. So I encourage parents.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (15:29.657)

Mm -hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (15:36.168)

if you see something different in your child. First, ask them about the drills. Secondly, ask them if there's anything else going on. Now, they're going to say no. Everybody's been a teenager. The teenage years are the worst, mean, for a kid especially. But they have to have someone they can turn to. So that's the main thing I wanted to get across.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (15:48.485)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (15:56.249)

Yeah, okay. And yeah, I get that. I understand that. But I also don't like the fact that it seems to me that the school administration has moved away from partnership with the parent. I don't know if I'm wrong about that, but that is what I sense. And the parent should have a say in what's going on because they know their child and, you know,

Daniel Dluzneski (16:11.317)

Mm -hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (16:22.339)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (16:24.329)

you need to encourage children to talk to their parents and parents need to encourage your children to talk to them. Because I think if a lot of times that troubled guy or a girl talk to the parent and the parent's responsible enough, then the parent could go to the administration, a teacher or someone and say something, right? Before the crisis happens.

Daniel Dluzneski (16:49.315)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (16:53.752)

Yes, no, I agree. No, I agree. We've seen videos of these school board meetings where parents are trying to express what's going on and what they're concerned about, the way things are being taught, and they're basically shut down. yeah, it's the kind of thing like schools kind of what we call circle the wagons, and they just protect themselves from whatever is going on, and they don't partner with parents. I know a lot of times when my child was going to school,

we were not allowed to email the teacher. The teacher would say, no, no, no, your child should email me if he's got any issues. Like, wait a minute, I got something going. So it was this dynamic, yeah, I understand they want the children to be independent, to be in charge of their own class and classrooms and whatever classes they were taking, but there were times that the parents like, no, no, I have to find out what's going on. this idea, and again, that's where you go in front of the school board.

I know you only get three minutes at most of these school board meetings, but if you don't get any response from the teacher or the principal, you have to go in front of the school board because, and again, instead of going alone, as you've seen, if you get a group of parents together, it's a lot more powerful to have more than one or five or 10 that have the same issues. And if there's issues with safety at the school, that again, raises red flags, parents have a lot of power. They do.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:10.211)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:21.965)

Right, yeah. Yeah, I believe that and unfortunately we lack that power because we accept the status quo.

Daniel Dluzneski (18:33.954)

Yes, well, until something happens. Usually, as you know, Jim, when something happens, that's when the red flags are, wait a minute, they had a school shooting at this school in the next county or the next town or whatever. And then all of a sudden, they're like, what happened? And then it's at the top of your headlines. It's the top of the news. And it's at the top of your head. And then you're asking your children, do you know what happened? my gosh, blah, blah, blah. So it should be all the time. It's not.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:37.082)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:40.559)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:45.785)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:52.962)

Right.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (18:57.454)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (19:01.324)

Because you got stuff going on, you got work to do, you got all these other things going on, you you're trying to make a living. And you don't want to worry about that stuff. You don't. You know, no one wants to worry about that stuff. But it's not something you should have to worry about. It's something that the school should come to the parents and say, this is how we're running operations. This is how we're doing our drills. In fact, when they run a drill, they're supposed to tell the parents, hey, as of this date at this time, we're going to run a drill for X.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (19:03.714)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (19:09.933)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (19:19.085)

Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (19:30.23)

And they should be telling the parents that because there are a lot of times these children, and I get all this pushback about these kids are scared about these different drills and all this. No, come on. I went through the nuclear war and the Cuban missile crisis. I mean, come on. These children are not scared of this stuff. To them, it's just something to get over with. I mean, it's not something that they're fearful of, but it's just something you have to be aware of and just have the confidence that, the school is going to take care of you. But if you've got something where

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (19:48.26)

Alright.

Daniel Dluzneski (19:57.622)

Again, they teach you to throw things at a gunman or something odd that you're like, wait, that doesn't make any sense. That's when you have to step up and say, whatever you're doing, no, I disagree with that. And I'm going to get a group of parents saying, no, why can't we just do lockdowns? What are you doing? Because everybody that comes along in this industry, and I have to tell you, Jen, this is an unregulated industry. There's no certifications.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (20:03.223)

Absolutely. Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (20:24.408)

There's no license that says, okay, I'm a school security expert. So a lot of these marketing companies that make money, and I'm not in it for the money, I'm independent. I wrote a book, so you want to buy the book? Fine. If not, it doesn't bother me. I'm in it for the information, but there's a lot of companies out there that market these kinds of things to make money off of. And the reason is, if you go into a lockdown, that's a passive response.

You're just sitting down over here, you're waiting for the police to arrive. A lot of these companies, and it's a company called Alice, and it's an acronym, a lot of these companies have acronyms, and they advocate a more reactive response, meaning the teachers are going to do something. The teachers are going to try to talk the individual down. The teachers, along with the students, are going to confront the individual. And they like that. They like the idea that they can be reactive.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (21:10.468)

Hmm.

Daniel Dluzneski (21:22.87)

rather than just passive, like they're doing something. But we've seen at Sandy Hook, Marjorie Stoneman Douglas, in Nashville, in Iowa, you've had principals or teachers go out and confront someone with a weapon, and they've gotten injured, critically injured, or a lot of times they get killed. It's the wrong approach, absolutely the wrong approach. I'm not putting anyone in danger.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (21:42.583)

Alright. Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (21:48.972)

My big thing is you keep yourself safe, then you can help others. I tell teachers that. In a lockdown, you keep yourself safe, then you can help others. So this idea that you're gonna go out and talk down an individual who is already way beyond, they've planned this for months. As you know, Jen, most of your school shooters are either current students or former students. They know the deal, they know the drill, they know what's going on. Their purpose is at an end game.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (21:57.315)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (22:03.94)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (22:13.242)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (22:18.42)

of either committing suicide, being shot by the police, they may give up. I mean, the guy Cruz and Parkland gave up for whatever reason, but most of them are just beyond that. You're not gonna talk to them. You're not gonna talk them down. It's not gonna, so.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (22:29.911)

Yes. Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm sure when a teacher went to college to get her degree, she didn't think she was going to have to talk about a gunman, Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (22:42.531)

No, they don't sign up. You didn't sign up for this. I'm a teacher that's probably the job in the world because you didn't sign up for this. As you know, I'm sure you've been reading the news. A lot of teachers have quit, not only because of this issue, but because of pay issues. And really, a lot of times, it's just a disrespect from students. There's really not much respect for teachers anymore. And it's just a societal thing, I believe. But yeah, a lot of them are just leaving.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (22:59.962)

Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (23:10.498)

They don't want to be in that job anymore. It's just, there's just too much, too much stuff going on for the pay that they get. They definitely don't get paid enough.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (23:15.343)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that. I could see why. So let me get on to something else. Same issue, but do you, I know you work in schools and with schools. Do you work with parents in this regard?

Daniel Dluzneski (23:39.456)

No, it's kind of hard because in this type of industry, it's mostly peers that I deal with, other people that are dealing with this industry. It's kind of hard to get parents into something like that, you know, to talk to them because again, they've got busy lives. They don't want to deal with this until you hear something that happens. Then it kind of raises your hackles because most parents, like I said,

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (23:46.54)

Okay.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (23:56.558)

Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (24:04.762)

I trust the school. They deal with it. I drop my kid off. I trust that they're going to do the right thing, and that's it. But then when something happens, then it's like, wait a minute. How are you running the drills? You're doing what? So it's just something I wanted parents to be aware of, of how drills are being run, and just question it. Just question why we're doing certain things that you disagree with. I I went to this conference in Orlando about a month ago.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (24:19.151)

huh.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (24:23.449)

Bye.

Daniel Dluzneski (24:33.494)

And I had people from all over the country. And there were people from North Carolina and Illinois and wherever. And I asked them, said, how you're running your drills? And they'll say, we're following the Alice method. And I tried to not argue with them, but ask why. And it's just something that they thought fit. It just works for them. And I try to ask them, so you're having kids throw things? You're teaching kids to throw things in a gunman? no, we don't do it that way. We try to, it's just kind of get away from.

that kind of aspect, it's still the same kind of thing. And their whole thing is that just locking down and staying in the classroom and what I get pushed back on playing the devil's advocate is that, no, they're sitting ducks. Well, they're not sitting ducks. No shooter has breached a locked door. It hasn't happened. It takes too long. They're not going to breach a locked door because they're going to move on. They're looking for easy targets. So why not stay in a locked classroom?

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (25:18.457)

Hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (25:25.348)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (25:29.475)

Yes.

Daniel Dluzneski (25:33.11)

I mean, if you're targeted, whole different subject. If the classroom is targeted, that means that gunman is looking to hurt someone in that classroom specifically. Right, you got file cabinets, you got teacher's desk, you can block that door. They're not getting in, but that's whole different subject. I'm talking about a shoe that comes in randomly and is just gonna try to get as many people killed as possible.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (25:45.038)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (25:52.046)

Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (26:03.022)

that's not something they're going to breach a locked door. They're not going to do it because I'll tell you years ago, I think it was 2005, there was a shooting in Minnesota at a native American reservation. And this kid killed his grandfather, then killed his grandfather's girlfriend, went to the school, killed a security guard, ran down a hallway after a teacher or the teacher closed the door. He shot at that door three times, tried to shoot that lockout three times. Still couldn't get the door open.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (26:06.029)

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (26:31.544)

Finally went around and broke a window and got in that way, but no, they're not gonna shoot out a locked door. It just takes too long. they're not gonna do it. They're looking for easy access. So this idea that they're sitting on the floor in a locked classroom, that they're sitting ducks, I don't go with that. It doesn't make any sense. They're not, they're safe.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (26:38.479)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (26:49.929)

Yeah, get that. But it seems like the schools using the ALICE method is their way of, you know, I'm just going to say what it is. They're just transferring the responsibility to another entity because when things happen, they can always say, well, we use the experts and this is what the experts recommended, so we're not responsible. And I just see that as shifting responsibility after.

Daniel Dluzneski (26:56.716)

Mm

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:16.549)

to people who don't care about your kids, basically.

Daniel Dluzneski (27:19.47)

Nope, and I'm glad you said that because what happens, Jen, it runs into liability. And that's why they tell teachers, teachers, we're going to give you the option. You could have the option of staying in a lockdown or we're going to give the option to run out of the school with your children. So now the burden is on the teacher. And that teacher is liable for those 25 to 30 children. And you think in their mind, they're going to say,

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:24.899)

Yeah.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:38.755)

Mm -hmm.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:43.321)

Yes, who wants that? Yeah.

Daniel Dluzneski (27:46.446)

They're thinking, you know, we're going to run out of here. And you know what? Maybe two or three of those kids, maybe 10 of those kids are scared out of their minds and they're going to freeze. Or they're going to say, hey, my dad's in the military. I'm not going anywhere. And then they're going to force these kids to come out. No. You put the liability on the teacher so that they wash their hands of it. And the same thing you talk about the training. I absolutely agree with you that they can go back to that training and say, this is not our fault. We paid for this training. They told us to do that. So.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:55.171)

Yes.

J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (27:59.351)

Bye.

Daniel Dluzneski (28:15.598)

As of now, and I'm talking about as of now, last year I talked to an expert in this. His name is Michael Dorn. He's with Safe Havens International. They've done a lot of research on this. At this point, it's up to $130 million that schools have been sued for that type of training, for this type of ALICE training or what's called run, hide, fight type of training. And it's wrong. It's unsound, it's dangerous, and it should not be used. J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (28:38.273) Yeah. Daniel Dluzneski (28:44.426) Lockdowns still work. They've been working for years. They will continue to work. Unless there's something in the future when we're all gone that AI has something out there. Right now, no. You stay in a lockdown. It continues to work. J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (28:58.241) Makes sense, but lockdown doesn't make money, does it? Yeah. All right. OK. All right. Well, I appreciate you coming and talking to us, about this is an interesting topic. And I think that, you know, moms especially will be interested in hearing more about this. And is there a resource you have that moms could grab a copy of and, you know, to help them? Daniel Dluzneski (29:01.794) No, no, of course not. Daniel Dluzneski (29:22.766) Yeah, my book is called The First Five Minutes. And if you Google it on Amazon, you put Amazon, it'll come up. And it's about school -starting survival. And it's just a guidebook. It's only 77 pages long. Take an hour and a half to read. It's very short and concise. And it actually talks about implicit memory during these drills. So you have confidence in what to do. I'm on LinkedIn under my name. I've got a Facebook page under the first five minutes. If anybody has any questions, they can easily email me. J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (29:34.147) Okay. Daniel Dluzneski (29:51.918) But yeah, the book will give you a lot of information because it's just a basic, easy read. It's not one of these 200 to 300 page books that are gonna collect dust about all this stuff. It's just something that's very easy and simple. So yeah, that's the best way to get in contact with me and also the best information you can get out there. J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (30:03.395) Yeah. J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (30:10.123) Okay, thank you and before you go give us one parting shot one quick tip for a solo mom Daniel Dluzneski (30:16.462) One quick tip is actually keep, whether it's in life or at school, whatever it is, you keep yourself safe. Then you can help others. That's my main goal. keep your, any kind of emergency, you keep yourself safe first, then you're be able to help others, okay? J. Rosemarie Francis (Jenn) (30:33.273) Yeah, makes sense. Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate you. Yeah. Daniel Dluzneski (30:36.152) Thank you. All right, then.